Lili Todrova (LT), journalist, author of the discussion project
Krassimir Ganchev (KG), Managing Director of Nokia Bulgaria
Stefan Vassilev (SV), Manager Small and Medium Business and International Loan Programs in UBB
Gergana Ivanova (GI), Deputy Managing Director and Director Client Relations in Lowe Swing Communications
Borislav Kaschiev (BK), Executive Director of ELANA Investment
Michail Ernesto Mihailov (MM), Promela Company, Entrepreneur and IT specialist
Nikola Roussev (NR), Director Service Department – SIEMENS
Pepa Vassileva (PV), Managing Director of Business Education for International Economic Development (BEIED) Bulgaria
Alexander Marinov (AM), Chief Editor, "Leader" Magazine
Chaika Hristova (CH), Editor at "Leader" Magazine

Discussion with participants in the Executive Management Program of BEIED

AM: the problem about leadership, about the level and the quality of leaders, is not a whimsy of ours. It is largely discussed throughout the world; even in countries we are apt to consider not having troubles with leadership. A fact that is indicative – for the last 3-4 years, the programs in American universities addressing leadership have increased 3,5-4 times. Peter Dracker renamed his foundation from “Dracker Foundation” into “Leader to leader Institute”, that addresses the problems of leadership in the social and non-governmental area. There are warnings, however that the process of leaders’ forming does not meet the dynamics in the development of society and technology and it lags behind.

Both the European and the world practice show, that the eminent leaders are not limited by their organization. They always show remarkable social presence, and are often associated with a moral benchmark. This is what Draker means when talking about the leader leading beyond the narrow frame of his instant duties. And this is extremely important for the Top level positions. We do have a certain shortage for success models to be benchmarked. If we accept that the leader is usually a model for prosperity in the broadest meaning of the term, we do not have good examples with strong influence to follow as it is in other countries and cultures. There is no strong piety to the man who has achieved a lot. I know many people, having qualities and achievements of leaders, but few of them want to show talk in public, to reveal themselves. We have not yet managed to leave behind this syndrome that makes you think that once you show up in light, it is very likely to draw negative attention, troubles, envy, rather than enjoy positive publicity.

We do not want to have some theoretical discussion here, but rather to share some thoughts on the subject. Everyone has some personal idea about leadership. It is important for us to see what people like you think, trough the prism of their professional experience and, I would say, example. It is good and useful if one can share his achievements – what he defines to be success, how did he managed to prove himself and to gain respect, when did he start leading people. Because this is what a leader is – a person after whom the others follow.

Based on such discussions in different areas of interest, “Leader” Magazine aims at giving an opportunity to a large circle of people to see, to feel the opinion of personalities with proved leadership achievements. Thank you for joining this discussion, part f which we are publishing in the Magazine, and we will publish in full on our website.

KG: I would like to share the experience I had, leading master classes with students from 3rd and 4th year at the university. This year, the topic discussed was Leadership – to what extend it dominates management and how future leaders look at the issue. It came out quite interesting. All the 60 students in the auditory ware seeing leadership primarily as an ability to lead your own personality trough discipline of behavior, way of life, of treating the others and all other definitions of leadership follow afterwards. This way the students managed to turn the classes into education for us, the lecturers. A very interesting discussion emerged on the instruments of leadership and the ability to manage motivation. I am saying this to indirectly address the issue about the lack of tradition for creating leaders in Bulgaria.

PV: Probably there are no models to be followed, examples that are accepted and appreciated.

SV: This is, to a certain point, related to our history. Unfortunately, as we do not have nobility in Bulgaria, and same way we do not have tradition in creating leaders. No one of us has learned how to do this, rather we have achieved it trough practice. There is a vast difference between a leader and a manager. It is best if a manager is a leader at the same time, as it brings best success if you can unite, motivate and stimulate people for the achievement of a goal. Of course, then you have to control the process and to always monitor what has been achieved. It also depends on what group pf people you’re leading. I work with young, intelligent people and when you need to lead such people you cannot force them. You have to unite them. You have to be able to take responsibility, because everyone sometimes makes a mistake, it is important to take responsibility and t learn. T is bad when a mistake repeats. On the other hand if you are leading a building gang, this approach is impossible. You either grab them by the throats, or the failure is certain.

AM: When you look back to your experience, what was the influence on you, of those you perceived leaders? I have met people who, not because of envy or because they are bad, but as a result of their management style, have deprived the younger of the opportunity to learn and to take responsibility, ad thus, have killed the leadership potential. They have become very good employees, but not leaders.

SV: People such as me have had left. There was a moment like this at my previous workplace. When I enrolled at the UNWE, the company manager decided that I am a potential competitor and tried to put me at a lower position. I chose to quit. Stayed 3 months unemployed and found this job.

PV: This is the good practice – a leader who wants below himself to create leaders, and those leaders to want to achieve his level.

NP: It is very important to keep a positive relation with the people you are leading. I am approaching the model of the team leadership. When the person has achieved certain level, and is doing his job quite properly, it is good to tell him: good job my boy, you’ve done well, keep the good work. And also: it is very important to teach your people to share their opinion – no the one you want to hear, but the actual one. In my practice people trust me and discuss with me on all kinds of issues.

BK: Aren’t we discussing the manager here. The Leader is different – he does not care what is going on, he is taking the lead. We, of course, have not defined what we mean by “leader”. But I find this to be much more passive. If we base on the etymology of the word “lead” – you are leading, you do not care in anyone follows. You might be a great leader and to be misunderstood trough all your life. To have lead only 3 people. Who is a greater leader – Julius Caesar or Jesus Christ?

GI: They have both led huge masses

BK: I am not quite convinced. The mass of the one was 12 people and of the other – couple of millions.

CH: It was 12 at the time of the crisis, they were more before that. But it is obvious that leadership and management are qualities that in business are interlaced. In order to be a good manager you should be a good leader. And I do not agree that a leader does not take a look around to see whom he is leading. He speaks out the idea, if people understand it- they follow. If we accept that the goals of a company are ideas.

BK: Let’s assume there is an idea, which is ahead of time and the masses do not understand it. Should the leader take this into account? Turn his back to the leadership and say “well, let’s get is a bit more flexible here”. Is this a leader? Do you like it?

CH: Many people have been destroyed as leader and have lost their positions due to exactly such conditions.

BK: I imagine the leader as a person who does not classify himself as such. He does not care if the masses will kill him. He simply is a leader.

SV: Yes, but as a leader you want to achieve certain goals. The question is how. If you oppose to the masses, you’re done. You need to rather unite them. If you do not unite them – you lose!

PV: Leader and manager should not be merged, but they complement. Probably the good manager is more specifically oriented, while the leader can see the big picture.

AM: One of the most powerful drivers of the practical and theoretical developments in the field of leadership comes from the experience of the American army. The commanders there / not only the high level/ are taught to lead. They say: when people stop coming to you and sharing their problems, they have stroked you out as a leader. They may follow your commands, but if a critical situation appears, they might not follow you to the end. And by the way these are words of Collin Powel. But it is valid for everywhere. It probably reflects the issue about the example. The Example is not in saying: Look at me and how smart, rich or intelligent I am. But when the time comes for a difficult situation to overcome, not to hide behind the back of the people you’re in charge of.

Charisma or education

GI: I will take the dialog back to a more spiritual field. To what extend the leadership qualities might be innate and to what extend they can be developed. I truly believe that leaders can be created, but charisma and being a natural born leader is a very good precondition for the development and the growth of a very good manager. I go back to those kids in the course, educated in new values – they already know what to do to become good managers, but very few of them will become true leaders. And so: does anyone appear in the world a leader, or he becomes such trough time. I personally believe leaders are born leaders.

SV: 50% a person is an inborn leader. Definitely.

MM: You are either a leader, and you work less on that, or you are assigned t be a manager and you have to put a lot of effort to become something. In our industry for example it is difficult to be a leader, as in most cases your team are experts, who know more than you do.

KG: Observing the kids playing in the kiddy garden, I think I can define their positions and even point their salaries. With which I go back to the question about the charisma. Leadership is a talent that can only be grinded. It cannot be accumulated.

GI: The first thing is to start believing in yourself. For me, this was the key. Of course there is always the risk of going into extremes and overestimating your qualities. To start believing in yourself too much. Here comes the corrective, the second important thing. And which is the corrective – the people. You should answer the question if what you have done was good. And you need t be brave enough to hear this answer.

PV: I think that the assessment of the social environment is very important, no matter how active it is. Societies that motivate people to succeed, that appreciate their success, create much better base for development of leaders. They help them much more to believe in themselves. If the society suppresses success, or makes people hide their success or creates conditions for leveling it can really kill a leadership talent.

Honesty - Abstract Ethics or Pragmatics

AM I will ask an inconvenient question: Was Hitler a leader? My personal opinion is he was not. To lead in crime is not leadership. But when we talk about business leaders – does it matter what kind of business it is?

MM: It is the same as with Hitler. I assume that it is not normal to call a leader someone who leads towards crimes. But following this way of logic, isn’t the boss of a criminal organization, which uses illegal or partially legal means of acquiring resources a leader. If ethics is a determinant of leadership – yes, but if it is not, then there are such leaders. I would give as an example Pablo Escobar. According to the investigators in the country where he operates, he is one of the 3-4 people with highest IQ who lived in XX century. He had 162 points or so. So he had all the qualities to lead his organization, despite the intellect. Is he a leader or not? The goals of the organization are definitely criminal.

KG: I think he is not a leader. This might be a topic for another discussion – how to do ethical business. Apropos, it is not a bad idea to discuss if there is in Bulgaria such thing as ethical business and if so – how does it operate? / laugh/

AM: It is not only a question of ethics. Imagine a company that wins a tender for a government project with political lobby, trough corruption. The person who leads this company, is he a leader? And to go back to the beginning of this conversation - would he represent a good example? To be a benchmark for success?

GI: The leader captivate people, he leads an organization or an activity due to personal qualities, and not because he is part of a formation or because he can use force to solve a problem or to instigate success. Leadership is different than that. We talk here about the relationship he has with the others, what values he has, and what morale.

MM: In this case it might come out that a company that has made 10 million of revenue one year and 50 million the next, has a good manager, but not a good leader.

PV: There is a relation between the results of a company and the leader, but we should not measure leadership qualities by the company cash flow. Rather, a good leader creates the company in terms of ideas, team, as a clock mechanism, so it can work without him.

AM: A very strange, I would say dramatic dilemma emerges, if we set the moral side aside /and it is not truly moral as it has consequences for the society/. Honesty is not an abstract ethics; it is a question of hyper-pragmatism. There is no way to set the moral element aside, we cannot accept that the only measure for leadership is effectiveness. As in this case, you might be a notorious criminal or scoundrel, but being effective to e perceived the greatest leader.

GI: If you win the tenders by lobbying and backstage tricks you become dependent, you bound yourself. And you are not a leader anymore, because for me leadership means independence. Leadership is to be able to survive in difficult situations, to e brave enough to do it and to lead your company trough tomes when the society is very dependent on such relations. But when you have clear perspective and goal, company culture and policy it is not so difficult to follow it.